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Author Topic: Revolution 129 - Feedback  (Read 2093 times)

J

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Revolution 129 - Feedback
« on: September 07, 2014, 09:30:36 AM »
Leave it here, bros.

SV

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Re: Revolution 129 - Feedback
« Reply #1 on: September 07, 2014, 06:08:53 PM »
Bailey did a great job writing his first match in SHOOT. He stepped in for me because I'm without real internet at the moment and couldn't rely on the weak 3G network from my phone.
I'm hoping he was sent a strat or two. Because not only is it helpful to long standing match writers, it's even more helpful for newcomers who are stepping up and helping with the shows.

Good stuff to start (as always from Jeff and I'm guessing Ed too) was a fun and frantic paced outing, it reminded me of the attitude/nwo era with a "live TV" feel to it. As for the "Tirade/promo" that was the part I enjoyed the most.

Glad to see Loco/Maya heating up. Nice emphasis on the title too. Then you factor in the impromptu match and I have to say this feud has really peaked my interest and given it’s the world championship feud this can only be a good thing.

Tanev Vs Dresden really stood out. Great match, great story between the two. Looking forward to where Tanev goes from here. As he’s riding pretty high and I wonder how this will fit in to his story or affect his overall persona.

There is something that people often miss when joining a new fed, that; you cannot expect “new fans” to react to your character simply because your alignment says “face” or “heel.” You need to actually do something and give them a reason to react to your character. And over the past few weeks Recoba has been giving a crash course  on how to do just that. From his Marz RP work, then to his first segment and now this week. As his “heelness” increases, so does his reactions from the fans. It’s spot on.
Somebody get Cross Recoba and Billy Winter in a segment together PRONTO!

One thing that could be a suggestion is, that we need to touch base and book the NPC's we are using, just somewhere where we can state which NPC will be used… Either that or at the very least mark which NPC's are used in our segment titles when we E-Mail them in. Just so we don't have two back to back segments where the same characters are used, despite being seen in different sides of the arena…Though, if someone wants to play around with an "evil twin" then I'm all for it.

Isaac Vs Omar was really well written. They both came out looking strong and Omar's "words of advice" to Isaac came off as a nice touch at the end.  I’m hoping something works out with Omar going forward and that he finds himself in a story. For me this match was all kinds of awesome because it was between two characters I highly regard.

Zex Vs Corazon; loved how intense and hard fought this bout was; from start to finish both men looked like equals, without compromising any flow. It was fitting of a Main Event and honestly painted both men as "contenders" so to speak.

Congratulations to Josh, hopefully I gave you a run for your money, I for one enjoyed the challenge.



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Matt

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Re: Revolution 129 - Feedback
« Reply #2 on: September 09, 2014, 11:01:52 PM »
Late to the game, but some thoughts:

The saga of Project Hero continued on and I thought it was a nice step forward.  Mixing in two groups of three into the mayhem connected a lot of characters to one another, and definitely created some openings for long-term stories, which is good to see. I was really amused with the ensuring segment as well between the Finest and Anarchy.

Stein gets the big W over Storm to earn the #1 contendership to the RoS belt....but you can't help but think that there's more going on with Chaos and Stein right now.  Very interesting way to end the match that keeps a few options open for Stein moving forward.

I really enjoyed the Maya/Loco segment.  Because I don't have a lot of the backstory, I often find myself getting confused with their stuff, but I found this one really helped catch me up at times, and generally did a really good job of hooking me in as this being for the big belt.

Loved the King/Winter/Elgin mugging.  I'm all in on Billy Winter.

Cross' segment was an amazing throwback.  It reminded me of an evil 1980s wrestler.  And I mean that in the best, most nostalgic way possible.

Big wins for Trey and Isaac, obviously setting up a super high profile match for MOTM.  A tough L for Owens, who has been putting out no shortage of really good work, but not always seeing it translate to "results" in the ring.  But a good match, and I think both guys emerge from it looking strong.

The Maya "match" was a great addition to his story.  It fits in so well with the character and the storyline, it's pretty hard to find any fault at all in how things are developing.  Really enjoying teh commitment to the plot.

No real comments on the match itself between Zex/Corazon, other than to say that both guys definitely deserved W's.  Top-notch stuff IMO from both guys throughout the 2-3 week cycle.  That one could have easily been the final! 


Cross Recoba

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Re: Revolution 129 - Feedback
« Reply #3 on: September 10, 2014, 01:34:10 AM »
Project Hero
Love the background we get on the PH members, shame it doesn’t appear immediately apparent if they’ll stick around.Definitely going to be an interesting story coming out from this segment, whether it sets up a 4 vs 4 at the PPV will be interesting. Although after the later segment could it be a four way?

Kale
More good work bringing Tanev into the world & a good way to sell the uneasiness that Tanev put ahead in his promos

Stein vs Storm
I think I heard someone say last week that the titles weren’t getting enough attention. This match, for me, showed that maybe that isn’t so true now. Some great character work had me looking forward to this match for most of the lead-up. High-paced and energetic in delivery I’d have given this MOTN, if I were a journo…and this was real. Sets-up what could be a fantastic program between Stein and Tanev.

Maya
I don’t think we’ve seen Maya address the fans since SHOOT’s first show of it’s return, so as a newcomer I’ve kind of learnt that Maya segments count. This definitely delivered. It brought up some history, put over what the title meant to both men and I get the feeling that next week they’re going to ramp up this story.

The Maya/Entragian interaction was great and gives depth to the story.  It’d be great to see who could counter Entragian as the other voice on Maya’s shoulder. Not entirely sure what to make of the impromptu match though, I get why it was made but not the opponents but I guess this might be something we learn further down the line.

Winter/King
Interesting segment, I’m not a massive fan of jumping on trends after the fact but the delivery of tho worked in it’s favour as Winter belittled the movement. Like I said before - this show definitely showed an increased focus on titles.

Tanev/Dresden
Of all the match-ups this week I had this one down as both the sleeper hit of the bracket and also the hardest to call in terms of results. Both men came into the match looking great and, to me, both men came out as strong, if not stronger, than the first bell. I’d like to see them work a program further down the line as the contrast between the two characters worked extremely well. Tanev getting the win will certainly put Matt to the test but I think we might have our Rookie of the Year locked down before Winter has started.

Chaos
Fun segment, pretty much what we expect  a title-wearing Chaos to do. The later segment was a great addition to the character. If Chaos can find someone to work a program and keeps up this momentum it’ll be can’t-miss ‘television’.

Miles/Willett
Hopefully I did both guys justice.

O2/Entragian
Much like Tanev/Dresden it was hyped up well, it was sold well and no-one is coming out looking worse than they started. Some great work on the writing of the match with the false finishes, the story shone through the match. Willett vs Entragian will be interesting for sure.

Zex/Corazon
I don’t think anyone can argue that this definitely delivered in terms of build-up and expectation on closing out the show. Fantastic spot to finish the match. With the brackets completed it delivers Tanev / Corazon for the semi-final and a match that could match this one for quality.

General Thoughts
Some great character work from everyone involved helped put on a great show

The summary style is harder than it looks

Can we get Buck Dresden/Chaos?






Entragian

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Re: Revolution 129 - Feedback
« Reply #4 on: September 10, 2014, 02:12:53 AM »

-Project: HERO is the “centerpiece” storyline for me right now in SHOOT Project. It’s a concept with so much potential to get TONS of people involved, and it feels like such a big thing. Jonny’s maintained innocence, Jarvis and the Godcast Podcast…and the scavengers continuing to raise hell in the worst kind of way. Every aspect of this captures my interest. The opener in particular was chilling…the blackout, the crazy ass rave music playing as the trio just FUCKS people up with a baseball bat…and then Riley’s statement to close things out.

I love how nihilistic the trio’s message is. I love the constant mystery of how Jonny fits into all this. I love Jarvis hamming it up in the name of the G-Man and bringing some dark humor to a very gritty story. This is my kinda story and I’ve been consistently entertained by it.

-Tanev’s struggle is another instant favorite for me in SHOOT. I think it’s very realistic when Kale seems to have no idea how to react when the escorts show him little acts of kindness. He strikes me as a guy who has been beaten down by life for such a long time that just something as small as offering him a ride home is HUGE thing for him. I hope I did justice to his match this week.

-Anarchy & VF bring the chuckles, but they also delve into serious territory this week. VF battling the trio and Anarchy getting pulled down into this Maya conspiracy…GOOD STUFF.

-Enjoyed Storm/Stein. I think Stein/Tanev is going to be MONEY in the RoS division

-Maya had a major presence on this show. Definitely had the World Champion exposure that he needs with the in ring promo and even the impromptu Anarchy match later in the show.

-I want to purchase a bowl of soup from Chaos. Seems like a trustworthy dude. That hussy Abigail Chase should have had a spoonful! So rude of her.

-Reboca is SUCH a dick. I’m talking classic, bully-ish heel…REALLY dig that. He reminds me of early Million Dollar Man. Just throwing the football into the fan’s face had me rolling…on top of tricking him into signing the liability form before doing it.

-Really enjoyed working with Omar this week. Felt very pushed in terms of competitive writing and the post-match promo from Owens definitely struck a chord with me and gives me something else to play with in future Isaac storyline work.

- Zex/Corazon felt like one of those matches that BLAZES by because the action is so fast-paced and each sequence leaves you feeling satisfied as a fan/reader. The RP boards got torn up by these two for the entire cycle….loved that “Saddest Man Alive” theme that Zex played with and Corazon grinding it out to show that he’s still just as dangerous as he’s always been.

Great show, great stories, GREAT SHOOT PROJECT.

One thing I’ll say about the summaries…makes leaving feedback even easier, haha. Don’t have to scroll and skim through long ass matches anymore.






Jonny

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Re: Revolution 129 - Feedback
« Reply #5 on: September 10, 2014, 12:59:54 PM »
GOTTTTTTA SAY...

This was a pretty fucking great show from top to bottom.  As a whole, I really think the summaries are challenging us to consider WHY these matches are happening, which drives our focus toward STORY elements...  That, in turn, seems to be bringing out some really creative, wonderful character development from all of our writers.

It's AWESOME.

Here are the things that stood out to me!

- Matt's ability to develop Kale the way he has is really a testament to his ability as a writer.  The "early success" on a "W/L" level that the character has, hasn't necessarily contributed to his growth/build on a personal one.  And THAT is a good thing.   Too many times in eWRestling, a character wins/loses X number of times and writers tend to fall into boring tropes.  Matt has taken wins and losses and simply tailored his already WELL DEVELOPED character to react accordingly.  You get the sense that the character may still be where he's at today, regardless of any particular MATCH specifics.  I'd LOVE to see Tanev get more involved in a meaty story, but for now, the build has been excellent.  Also, GRATS on the MotM win over a VERY competitive Buck Dresden.

- Loved the dynamic of Anarchy and Vermont's Finest and what the segment lead into.  I'm concerned that Anachy's involvement with Maya is leading us to an inevitable Loco heel turn.  SAAAAAY IT AINT SOOO-WHOA-WHOA!  Anyway, looks like the TAG division AND World Title scene got a nice story bump here.

- Ed did a GREAT job with Stein and Storm.  The AMOUNT of dusty finishes Stein had to throw out at Eli before one of them ACTUALLY stuck was beyond dick-headish.   Great, great story told in the match with Eli essentially proving that he is the better WRESTLER, but Stein, perhaps proving that he might just be "better".  Good win for Stein with a GREAT angle now looming on the horizon with Tanev...  (who, NEEDS a meaty story...  OH GOD THIS IS A MATCH MADE IN HEEEEEEAVEN) I'm not sure what Dan's plans are with Storm, but his involvement has been unfortunately "shaky" in this version of SHOOT.  Not sure where he goes next.

- Maya is stepping up lately in this feud with Loco and seemingly "setting in" to his role as the company's GO TO PLAYER.  Being the World Champion of SHOOT Project brings with a lot of responsibility and it's good to see Drew getting more comfortable with controlling the top dawg.  The segment with Loco was PERFECT here and the build to this match at Master of the Mat continues to be shockingly brilliant.  (Not in the sense that the two guys involved aren't capable of, but that I didn't expect this level of slow burn drama)  I have no idea what is going to happen in this thing and it's gripping.  Well done.

- Not 100% sold on the Winter/King angle this week.  I get the idea of it, but I'm generally not a fan of characters "being somewhere" for the sole purpose of "being attacked".  We didn't hear from King earlier...  we don't see him later.  So, to me, while I know it continued the feud, it wasn't the best execution.  This one is spinning it's wheels juuuuust a little bit.

- While it didn't necessarily get me EMOTIONALLY invested in Recoba, the segment was very fun and very old school.  I WOULD HAVE LIKED TO SEE MORE DEVELOPMENT IN TRENT.  MAYBE A STORY PIECE EARLIER IN THE WEEK SO THE BUILD TO HIM GETTING PEGGED IN THE HEAD WOULD HAVE BEEN MORE DEVASTATING.  BAILEY, JESUS MAN!  hahahahaha.  This was fun.  Good segment.  Can't wait to see Cross get involved in something solid going forward!!!

- Gotta say...  it's been a long time since Ed and I worked on anything like this.  I'm VERY happy that people have been into the story we're telling.  It legit means a lot.

- I'm still not 100% sure about Entragian's alignment.  The combo of him and Loco's involvement with Maya makes me scared for our world Champ.  How fucked if they're TOGETHER!  Entragian corrupted Loco and this is all a horrible scheme to RAPE MAYA OF HOPE ENTIRELY.  The man he's rehabilitated AND the man he's trusted as a friend...  TOGETHER?  OH GOD.  That would be a depressing story.

- Chaos.  Bro.  You're weird as fuck.  U KEEP ON BEIN U THO

- O2 has the post segments down PAT.  His match with Isaac told a great, competitive story, and Omar's post speech at the end not only "erases the loss" so to speak, but makes the character look like a trillion bucks.  Glad to see Justin sticking around ALA Sam.  The character is building every week and I love the attention to detail.  As for Jer, congrats on the big BIG win and good luck with Trey this week bro.

- Atta boy, Bailey.  THAT'S THE FUCKING DINNER I WANTED, DAWG .  Great piece of development here.  Ties in the attacks on fans...  Calls out some names in the fed.  Brilliant, brilliant, brillllliant.  BUT BRO.  They'll ALWAYS be talking about Project: Hero.  THATS UR ONLY SLIP UP.

- OOOOH.  Yes.  Of course I'd like to eat more crow.  Sorry Drew for originally not thinking your massive beat down wasn't a well thought out jumping point into a new, brilliant story.   GRATZ ON THE BIG WIN ANARCHY.  You guys beat the world champion, which is saying a LOT.  HUGE WIN and you got your heat back after that LULZ beatdown you took!

- Josh and Sam...  hats of to you two for a fitting end to the show.  I think Corazon deserved the win, but Zex continues to look strong in the process.  The match was written competitively and the summary format kept things fresh, fash and fluid.  Kudos!  Great fuuuucking show


This one gets an A from me.  Outside of Winter/King feeling a little "flat", this show was spot on.

Great work everyone!!!!

Paul Jarvis

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Re: Revolution 129 - Feedback
« Reply #6 on: September 10, 2014, 10:43:44 PM »
Coming off of Revolution 129 I feel like both individual writers, and the fed as a whole have really found a momentum and sort of new energy that is really benefiting every story being told, every feud being built, and every SHOOT Project solider being developed. I feel like we're on the cusp of some really huge happenings too, with stories that can involve a lot of different people... so now, I imagine, is the time to get involved if you still feel somewhat floating.

This show was probably the closest to a succinct wrestling show we've had as far as the pacing, the ups and downs, the drama, and how things generally played out in a while and as a result, I was a big fan of all the promos and work that went into Revolution 129.

- Jeff continues to be the master of controlled chaos in that he writes a whirlwind, no nonsense style every time the trio is involved, yet manages to keep a focus so we don't feel jumbled (in the bad sense) what I've enjoyed most about the build of the trio is how Jason Riley has sort of become the mouthpiece and leader of this movement which is funny to me as Riley was always kind of the sidekick to Tom Quinn's leadership role, and now it would seem Riley, through not giving a fuck, has found something to give a fuck about.  Having him as the main mouthpiece is ideal too because he's easily the MOST hated of the three. So yeah, sick stuff with the assault and even more foreboding message. They lose but they don't stop. Also, not sure if it was a happy accident how it wasn't mentioned one way or another where Crusher and The Spot Monkey went, which is another way Jeff writes to capture the reality of the moment. Sometimes in real wrestling when there's a lot of stuff going down, people less involved just vanish and aren't addressed as the more important stuff is kept the focus. Killer way to open the show and like I said, loved the continuity of that stuff throughout the night.

- Loved the follow up stuff from Anarchy and Vermont's Finest too... and I think I've just enjoyed watching this multiple team storyline/feud/division slowly build up these past couple months. This was probably the best wrestling segment of the night in my personal opinion.

- Can't say much more that hasn't been said about Kale Tanev and Matt's writing of him. This is the best I've seen from Matt, as Hawkins was always good, the dude just never stood out to me. He was the tried and true vet who while you remember his name, you don't totally always remember what he was involved with. Matt's pacing and well placed lines of dialogue has seen Kale's story slowly  told yet still keeping mystery.  I think we're at the cusp of now where the next BIG event in Tanev's story and wrestling career needs to happen... and it could be the Master of the Mat tournament, it could be a possible feud with Dan Stein, it could be something else (like a past happening affecting his present) whatever it ends up being, the fact that Tanev has these avenues and collectively everyone seems to be into whatever avenue he chooses because we all know Matt's going to make it work based on the Tanev story.   My personal favorite story in SHOOT Project right now (outside of my work with Project: HERO of course)

Also sharing my congrats on Tanev for the win. You and B both put up solid promo work this week, but this tournament just felt more important to Tanev so glad he got the win (though the line "I don’t know where I’m going if I lose, but I know what it means.  It won’t be a good place" made me kind of wish Tanev had lost if only to explore what exactly that meant/means)

- When I came back I didn't want anything to do with match writing just because I went through a period of time where I was literally writing pretty much every single match on a card every single week. This summary style has breathed new life into match writing and allows us all to play with some fun narrative techniques while getting each match's main points across. So yeah, writing Dan Stein vs. Eli Storm was a blast as I've been up and down the e-fed road with Greg and Dan for awhile now. Storm's promo definitely had a passion to it and I think if he had kept that going for a second, we'd see a new #1 contender to the Sin City Championship... BUT Dan Stein sneaks by which I thought was a fitting end(?) to this sort of one and done feud. The inclusion of Chaos makes all of this interesting though too as it could very well see a lot of cross over feuding that centers around both the Sin City Championship and Rules of Surrender Championship. REALLY hope Dan has a focus here to send Eli Storm off with a bang, when the dude's motivated he can churn out some really good stuff and so his shaky past does hurt him, but I think he can rise up from it as well.

- Thank God Maya finally addresses the SHOOT Project Universe directly. I've been sort of a detractor when it comes to Maya as the TOP dog in SHOOT, because guys like Stein, Corazon, and Billy Winter were just taking my attention away and I would forget Maya existed. Maybe that was done on purpose though, in which case this is easily the greatest build to a world title match ever. Anyway, whatever happened has been made right with this segment as everything both from the forums and happening on the show have seemed to push Maya to finally be like "I'm your world champion, no matter what."

The Loco coming out right after Maya is talking about "whoever is doing this to me" was a good tease, and while I was once on board with the idea that Loco could very well be turning heel, I think both Drew and Scott have just been doing a good job of playing off the "fans" (us since we're still trying to attract non roster members) and giving us a will he won't he that inevitably turns into a he won't.  THAT being said, SOMETHING is happening in that match... and this slow burn build means it HAS to be something big I imagine... so yeah consider Master of the Mat Pay Per View hyped by This title match alone (kudos)

- I agree with Jeff's sentiments about the Winter/King segment this week. It felt, on the whole, unnecessary and didn't really add to the feud. Winter was doing all sorts of bizarre creative development stuff too, which fits the ego of Winter and his "LOOK AT ME" mentality... but yeah. I think if you wanted to keep the Iron Fist Title feud fresh in our minds, something as simple as a re-visiting of what has happened so far and then saying on Revolution 130 we're going to hear from Donovan King and maybe hint at an official challenge being made or something. This way you remind us, you get us re-hyped by recapping what's happened (Winter's first surprise attack, King OBLITERATING Elgin Blair, etc.) and you get us excited to move into Revolution 130.  Not a bad segment per say, but not one that was good either.

- Have I told you lately how much Cross Recoba is my favorite wrestler on the roster right now? No? Well he is. The homage to old school heels coupled with an ACTUAL message (as seen in his later segment) was awesome. I will say this though, this will be the third show he's not booked on and so while I assume Recoba will show up on the show it definitely needs to be in a capacity much different from these past two outings and I feel like it needs to involve a non-npc... aka somebody on the roster. Cross is grabbing all of our attentions which is beyond important, but if nobody steps up and a feud does not come of this... then I do fear Recoba's actions will just be considered antics. So yeah. LOVE this guy... LOVE everything so far but Revolution 130... some sort of trigger needs to be pulled to keep this momentum from getting a bit mucked up.

(agreed also on the point that was made about making sure we don't see our NPC interviewers zipping around the arena. Its not the end of the world... but yeah just agreed I think one more iota of communication and that can easily be kept from happening)

- Excited to see Jonny in ring and more excited that PAUL JARVIS will also make his return in ring debut at the Master of the Mat Pay Per View. I'm literally having the most fun with all of this as Jeff and I never really got to work directly together probably since old school Fame and Fortune (when we both sucked at writing by our standards today) sure we worked together in TTW but never on an in-ring story directly involving characters we created... so yeah. Glad SHOOT Project came back and we could do everything we've been planning for months upon months.

- Earlier in the week I touched on my disappointment with the Miles/Willett match partially because MoTM is kind of a big deal and to see both guys kind of be like "ehh can't really find the inspiration" well that was all kinds of unfortunate and took me out of the moment. Willett's promo kind of brought me back in, but it didn't help the match as it was pretty much a foregone conclusion that Trey would be advancing. Think this is where Aiden Miles re-assesses his focus and maybe finds someone to work with to keep him motivated... and honestly if he had found focus this week an Aiden Miles victory would have been HUGE especially because Willett doesn't NEED this tournament (personally I think that's what he should have said to the powers that be from the get go and just kept being a demanding presence wanting what he feels he deserves) The tournament helps play an important role in that, but some of these newer faces maybe would benefit more as it seems there is still a semblence of competitive writing spirit amongst a few of the guys who are new (to me.) So yeah, not really going to say congrats on this one... twas my least favorite match up of the night, but again it wasn't bad, just wasn't what it could have been.

- The Entragian/Maya follow up keeps the flow of the show going and reminds us that things happened earlier... so YAY for that. The content was good, the back and forth made sense, Entragian's voice however, its just still a bit tough still because how he's written now comes across weird... probably though only because I'm not used to him in this role and I know Jer is still finding his footing with it. That being said, I still don't trust Entragian. I don't want this to be a ruse because that's kind of expected and I'm hoping for the unexpected on this one... but yeah between Loco and Issac, its the Pale Rider I have my reserves about in his new found role as Maya's friend and a "good guy" in SHOOT Project.  The most important part of this segment for me, however was Maya's outburst... that was powerful and really resonated. HOPE being chipped away at? Possibly.

- I'm into Chaos, but his segments this week didn't make sense. His involvement in the Stein/Storm match did but the post stuff... yeah... sort of felt like a two steps forward one step back for the Sin City Champion this week. As always, just my opinion on the matter.

- One thing I will say about the summary style (and I mention it now as I go through the show again and noticed a couple matches did it) is that I think we should incorporate entrances. Sure if we're doing back to the ring and match is under way already kind of a thing I get it, otherwise having the full entrance really helps us get into the match and also helps sell the characters visually for a moment before getting into the summary stuff.  So yeah just wanted to note that.

- In the battle of Issac and Omar Owens, I think this week the better man definitely won.  It was an odd mash up of writing styles I think, but this was a spot where O2 could have really stepped up to the next level in his promo work and I felt he fell just a little flat in achieving that goal.  the character has a lot of potential but it still feels like his goal/focus/persona shifts on a match by match basis.  Time to hunker down O2, let the world know who you are other than Zex's friend. (your post match words definitely helped though, don't get me wrong, just want to see something a little more defined and not so dependent on the matches themselves)

- having Maya face Anarchy was deliciously evil on the part of WHOEVER is doing this and allowing it to be done.  Do Jason/Josh have some ill will towards Maya. Maybe they think he's a weak champion/draw?  I don't know now. I know though this confirms (for me) that it actually ISN'T Loco, because this was too obvious of a set up. If its supposed to be a double trick fine, but I REALLY don't buy that now. Somebody else is behind this, and I'm pretty sure its..... JUN KENSHIN!!!!!!!1  No... I'm just joking... its probably not Jun Kenshin.  Bittersweet victory for Anarchy but I like that they didn't refuse, and that maybe they would have had Maya not taken the offensive on this one. My only gripe with this match was again a lack of entrances and it could have benefited from a couple lines of commentary just to push some more stuff along and break up the text (not that it was hard to read as the summary flowed nicely, but that pop of commentary here and there gives it an aesthetic appeal and it feels more... alive I guess you could say.

- Not really an issue, but having something, even just a bit of Master of the Mat hype or maybe a recap of something that happened last week or to show who Adrian and Zex both beat to get to their main event contest would have helped break up the back to back in ring fights. Just something to think about in the future, pretty easy fix to just grab some snippets from past shows.

- Okay so talk about a main event where I was like OH MAN I LEGIT don't know who is going to win. Great use of the commentators  here to sort of kind of reset things and shift our focus to a hotly fought contest both on the boards in the form of promos and in the ring.  The line "The crowd is rabid watching these two, and they know that we’re getting towards crunch time" is a perfect example of why this summary style is really a golden tool as we've sort of re-invented the horrible stigma of summarized matches that past e-feds have done (which were boring and didn't sell anything) and we're adding important lines that sell the emotion and convince us HOW to feel way better than having written out a bunch of moves to convey "crunch time" So yeah, this was my favorite match of the night hands down because it captured everything a main event on Revolution should be.

As for the winner, man... I don't know. I'm still torn on who I would have booked to win in this one... but I think that also played itself out in the match with Corazon having to hit a sort of last ditch finisher out of nowhere. Both men could benefit from a victory here, but I think depending on where personal character stories or going, Corazon actually NEEDED this win a little bit more than Zex.

So congrats to Sam and Josh both... you win the day for Revolution 129 as match of the week.

Pretty stoked for Revolution 130 so lets just keep that momentum going folks.
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Omar Owens

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Re: Revolution 129 - Feedback
« Reply #7 on: September 11, 2014, 08:04:27 AM »
Quote
In the battle of Issac and Omar Owens, I think this week the better man definitely won.  It was an odd mash up of writing styles I think, but this was a spot where O2 could have really stepped up to the next level in his promo work and I felt he fell just a little flat in achieving that goal.  the character has a lot of potential but it still feels like his goal/focus/persona shifts on a match by match basis.  Time to hunker down O2, let the world know who you are other than Zex's friend. (your post match words definitely helped though, don't get me wrong, just want to see something a little more defined and not so dependent on the matches themselves)

As I've mentioned a few times before, Sam and I are planning on doing a tag team (which has started already).  Master of the Mat was preventing us from starting that, but I didn't want to get mixed up in a story that would last past MotM. 

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Re: Revolution 129 - Feedback
« Reply #8 on: September 11, 2014, 09:00:02 AM »
Re : Paul Jarvis

I had plenty of inspiration, just none if it would come from my head to the 'page' so to speak. I find the term writers block to be a cop out, so we'll call it a brain fart instead. I know I dropped the ball but now that I'm out of the tournament there's going to be more of a chance to get involved in a story, rather than a promo or two week to week.

I booked myself into a corner having Miles not be under contract, arrive, wrestle, leave. So I didn't have all options open to me and it eventually backfired. Especially since my whole ethos was not to do segments, which totally hindered my character.

Hopefully I'll give you all a reason to get invested in the character ASAP, and give myself a reason to be invested in the character.

That being said, most of what you said was totally valid.

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Re: Revolution 129 - Feedback
« Reply #9 on: September 11, 2014, 12:39:57 PM »
As I've mentioned a few times before, Sam and I are planning on doing a tag team (which has started already).  Master of the Mat was preventing us from starting that, but I didn't want to get mixed up in a story that would last past MotM. 

Yeah the story thing I can understand, if you have something planned you think wouldn't have been able to be played out in the tournament (though I always like when people can combine a few ideas/stories under one umbrella, in this case the MoTM is sort of just an umbrella story that people can also be doing other stuff under it) my main point was though, from a promo stand point, Omar Owens seems to shift based on the match and, for me, I don't see as defined a character each week. To me it should be about how a character makes his match up fit what he wants and who he is and not the character fitting the match up.  and it could be that I'm missing some more subtle connections, like I said there's a lot of potential I'm seeing and I guess I just want more definition to it.

Re : Paul Jarvis

I had plenty of inspiration, just none if it would come from my head to the 'page' so to speak. I find the term writers block to be a cop out, so we'll call it a brain fart instead. I know I dropped the ball but now that I'm out of the tournament there's going to be more of a chance to get involved in a story, rather than a promo or two week to week.

I booked myself into a corner having Miles not be under contract, arrive, wrestle, leave. So I didn't have all options open to me and it eventually backfired. Especially since my whole ethos was not to do segments, which totally hindered my character.

Ah okay yeah then that's a different story. I understand the whole "Inspired but somehow physically unable to put it down on paper" just how things originally were said it just bummed me out to think you weren't inspired at all by the creativity and talent of the people on the roster.

Guess my question is why did you create an ethos not to do segments?  Just curious on that as yeah, you kind of did hinder/SHOOT yourself in a foot for a minute.  But glad you're ready to delve into the next phase of the Aiden Miles journey so I'll be reading.
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Re: Revolution 129 - Feedback
« Reply #10 on: September 11, 2014, 05:00:17 PM »
My only gripe with this match was again a lack of entrances and it could have benefited from a couple lines of commentary just to push some more stuff along and break up the text (not that it was hard to read as the summary flowed nicely, but that pop of commentary here and there gives it an aesthetic appeal and it feels more... alive I guess you could say.


I agree with this.  Legit didn't even think about commentary as a possibility when Drew and I were tag teaming this match.  For some reason when i thought "recap" I just kinda thought maybe the announcers would go away.  So I marked out seeing commentary in other matches.  But I noticed the same aesthetics. 

More feedback to come.  I promise :D

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Re: Revolution 129 - Feedback
« Reply #11 on: September 11, 2014, 06:08:59 PM »
Quote
just how things originally were said it just bummed me out to think you weren't inspired at all by the creativity and talent of the people on the roster.

I don't know why me having a bit of a brain fart and just not getting anything good, would lead you to believe that I wasn't inspired either by the MOTM tournament or the fed as a whole. If you really did think that then you jumped to a conclusion that was way off.

Quote
Guess my question is why did you create an ethos not to do segments?  Just curious on that as yeah, you kind of did hinder/SHOOT yourself in a foot for a minute.  But glad you're ready to delve into the next phase of the Aiden Miles journey so I'll be reading.

Long story short, if you read my first RP then it was more or less than Aiden Miles wasn't really ready to deal with the 'bullshit' that comes with pro wrestling. He'd show up, he'd wrestle, he'd leave. He didn't want to involve himself in dramas or anything like that, which was in essence meaning segments & storylines. Given he wasn't under contract yet it wouldn't have made sense for him to be involved in all that. He was literally showing up to wrestle then leaving the arena. I had one segment with Justin & Sam but even that was a fleeting cameo.

I thought it was a good premise to go with, but it eventually hindered my overall character development and it ended up just being 'Face this guy, RP, face this next guy, RP' and while I got away with it...my last match showed that can't be sustainable.

Now that he's lost the MOTM and will officially be on the roster (Or will sign, depending how my RP goes) then he's more likely to show up before the event, stay for the duration then leave. Ergo he'll get involved in the drama & bullshit (Read:  Segments & storylines) that come with pro wrestling.

I didn't really have a personal story to go on other than the intro, rehab & going to Vegas and the MOTM but now I need to either come up with something long term on my own and/or get involved with other members with angles & storylines.

Hope that clears that up.

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Re: Revolution 129 - Feedback
« Reply #12 on: September 11, 2014, 06:30:25 PM »
Yeah. I think MotM has a tendency to side track things a little.

Last year MotM was my story-line for Valentine and my segments ect were centered around that. While this year, it's been a little harder to come up with segments during the tournament because unlike Valentine, Zex isn't some all conquering maniac.

Now that MotM is over (For me) I can refocus and hopefully get a story going with Justin as a Tag Team and move from there. So I 100% understand what Steve is saying about the story aspect when approaching a tournament, because you never know how far you will go, which can halt any plans you may have.

 



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Re: Revolution 129 - Feedback
« Reply #13 on: September 11, 2014, 09:09:11 PM »
Now that MotM is over (For me) I can refocus and hopefully get a story going with Justin as a Tag Team and move from there. So I 100% understand what Steve is saying about the story aspect when approaching a tournament, because you never know how far you will go, which can halt any plans you may have.

I just wanted to reiterate both what Zex and Steve have said. 

As a new person, the introduction of MOTM definitely changed things a bit.

Admittedly, I came in with a 4-6 month character arc already planned out for Tanev. But I've had to adapt it to the MOTM tourney. And at times slow it or speed it up to match the "competitive" side of the tournament.  But I completely agree with both guys...MOTM is an awesome event, but it can create a bit of uncertainty around building other storylines if you're going to be tied up with MoTM.  It's the main reason I haven't really sunk into a deep plotline with someone else...I didn't know if tanev was going to get knocked out in the opening round or if he'd make it to the semi-finals. 

You can do both, but then it gets a bit tricky to balance commitments.  Should I be focused on Kale feeding a RoS title match w/ Mr. Stein, or should he be concerned about MoTM?

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Re: Revolution 129 - Feedback
« Reply #14 on: September 12, 2014, 02:18:40 AM »
See, I guess I just don't see the difficultly in developing a longer term story and being in a tournament at the same time because when you're faced with a tournament, each match is self-contained. Master of the Mat is single elimination so yeah you focus on your tournament match as far as promo work goes, because that's the story there on the easiest level. Win or lose, advance in the tournament or fall short. But that's just in the match, beacause MoTM specific stories ONLY take place in the ring. That gives you an entire rest of each show to be progressing longer term stories and working on additional character development on Revolution.

Like I said MoTM is an umbrella that ties everyone together on a basic level, and then each character underneath said umbrella has their own personal feuds/stories/etc going on and I think everyone who was in and still is in the tournament could be and should be doing that. You can develop tunnel vision otherwise.

But yeah, ultimately I guess its a writer by writer situation on what they think they can or can't do with their character in certain situations. I just don't see the tournament as a detriment at all but as another layer added to any character veteran or new.

I.E. Stein is now #1 contender to the ROS title, Tanev is still in the tournament, that's a money segment right there when Golden Boy meets homeless guy face to face backstage and have a bit of words. Tanev could easily address that in talking about the tournament as well because now Stein waiting in the wings is a factor. Talking about someone else or working them into your situation doesn't make you less "competitive" in these kinds of matches, if anything it adds to the "fans" desire to see Tanev compete because now there are other elements coming into play that make for intriguing wrestling "television" programming... which gives you a better chance at "winning" because to me winners are about who sold their character the best, who made me want to watch them and their match more (like real professional wrestling)

All in all things like that, or with Zex and Omar starting their team story right from the get go and watching it unfold while the tournament continues, that stuff would keep our world I guess more Three dimensional and open-ended... which is why I've always been a fan of fed-wide storylines that everyone can react to and play some part in based on how their wrestler would behave...  or just simply acknowledging other things are going on makes everything feel more connected.

And that's where I'll leave that. Just my personal opinions on how the Master of the Mat tournament can work hand in hand with other stories and doesn't have to be the sole thing a wrestler has going on for themselves.

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Re: Revolution 129 - Feedback
« Reply #15 on: September 12, 2014, 04:28:33 AM »
I know what your saying.

But on a personal level I found that MotM has been hard to plan and secedule around. As it had a large bulk of the roster tied up.

 Take Tanev as the example, he could focus on Stein and build towards that match and then make it to the MotM final, thus negating the PPV showdown he had been building towards with Stein.

Would the segments along the way be awesome? Yes.

But would the story lose weight if you had to put it on hold and not have the big PPV payoff of seeing the two go at it?

Would having the blowout match on Revolution have the feel you originally intended?

Or would you need to continue on to the next PPV, thus tying both of youin longer than you had expected as well as locking down the title?



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Omar Owens

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Re: Revolution 129 - Feedback
« Reply #16 on: September 12, 2014, 07:42:51 AM »
It seems easy to say that you can do storylines while MotM goes on, but when it started, I had no clue how long it was going to take, who was in it, what my path to the finals was, or even what my chance of winning were.  There are people whose whole storyline WAS the MotM and then they lost pretty early on and we never heard from then again.  Entragian and Corazon have a fantastic storyline going, but they had that going long before MotM started and to a viewer at home who knows wrestling is fake would view the tournament as set up for them to meet in the finals, but that's about the only storyline going on in the MotM.

I feel like this line of feedback has put a lot of people on the defensive.

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Re: Revolution 129 - Feedback
« Reply #17 on: September 12, 2014, 08:56:45 AM »
See, I guess I just don't see the difficultly in developing a longer term story and being in a tournament at the same time because when you're faced with a tournament, each match is self-contained. Master of the Mat is single elimination so yeah you focus on your tournament match as far as promo work goes, because that's the story there on the easiest level. Win or lose, advance in the tournament or fall short. But that's just in the match, beacause MoTM specific stories ONLY take place in the ring. That gives you an entire rest of each show to be progressing longer term stories and working on additional character development on Revolution.

Well when you've been out of the game for TWO years and you jump head first into a new fed, into a tournament with the original intention to ONLY be involved in the tournament and nothing else, then yeah it is pretty difficult. Maybe you're better than me in that regard, so good for you.

As for having the rest of each show to be progressing longer term stories and additional character development on Revolution, go back and read my posts. My plan was to NOT be involved in the rest of the show and stick to the single match. I didn't want my character to be involved in the 'world' of SHOOT project until I was eliminated in the tournament.

So I came in with the SOLE intention of the MOTM being MY story. I didn't know how long I'd be involved, I didn't know if I'd be sticking around after an elimination. Not only was my character not signed to the SHOOT Project but neither was I. Hence why me starting a story, developing my character beyond the MOTM may well have been a waste of time.

Not to mention, like I said right off the bat when I came here...I've been out of the game for two years. I'm not a 'real writer' either, in the terms that is the only creative writing I do...so yeah, ring rust was a big factor and it clearly told last week.

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Revolution 129 - Feedback
« Reply #18 on: September 12, 2014, 09:27:09 AM »
I hear ya. Tournaments make it easy to side track your stuff, and coming out of retirement/LOA right into it isn't going to help.

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Re: Revolution 129 - Feedback
« Reply #19 on: September 12, 2014, 09:35:20 AM »
Ultimately, what I think it comes down to is that people handle different things in different ways and they learn and grow from the things that they do as they go. 

The important thing isn't what we did on the last show, but what's coming up on this show and the shows moving forward.

If you've got a story in the works, awesome.  If you don't, we can work with that too.  I'm with Ed in feeling like stories make things more fun, but I also know that sometimes it can be hard to really get your teeth into something, especially if when you start, you're not sure you're going to stick around. 

Lots to be learned all around, you know? 

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Re: Revolution 129 - Feedback
« Reply #20 on: September 12, 2014, 10:16:06 AM »
I'm actually gonna side slighly more with O2 and Mr. Miles, here...  But for a slightly different reason.

While Ed makes some really good points (we should hold people to a certain standard of being involved and beign excited for their character etc etc), Master of the Mat IS a very tricky thing to walk into.  SHOOT hasn't really done a great job with the tournament...  pretty much ever, to be honest.  AT LEAST, in the early rounds.  The brackets are poorly updated and the structure is often vague/inaccessible to anyone NOT involved with the fed.

We invite all these people, and they all lose.  NOW, do I question the losses or think the winners aren't deserving, NO, but the bouts kind of get washed under the table without any real discussion of HOW match outcomes were determined and then it's usually "see ya later!  Thanks for stopping in".

There IS a competitive element, but story elements often derive from the matches, which would be okay, but to an outsider who might not know...  it bleeds too heavily into things... and like O2 (Justin) sort of touched on, it can sort of make things look angled.  It's confusing.

So if you're brand new...  you come into SHOOT and all you know is "RP vs RP.  Trash talk, etc etc" which is what MOST eWrestling is.  You do that (AFTER seeing you have a match on the ooc board, but no brackets or anything anywhere else and people IN the fed aren't even talking about it)...  read the card.  You've lost.  That's it.   And...  I can only imagine a little "WTF" settles in.

We've been lucky enough to have this group together for a looooong time so we have a very unique style/approach.  We're just REAAAAAAL shitty about explaining it or teaching it to people.  I also think we can be WAY better at hosting tournaments.   (IE, there ARENT PEOPLE KEPT FOR SURPRISES IN A COMPETITIVE TORUNAMENT hahaha sorry but that reasoning for the brackets not being released was dumb.  If you agree to be in the tournament, YOU'RE IN IT.  It's NOT real wrestling, so your MERE APPEARANCE doesn't pop a crowd and make the promoter money. )

There aren't ANY guidelines so it's overwhelming.

Under any circumstances, I'm going to agree with Ed's assessments and DO agree with him on the idea that WRITING should be the first love of our roster and that everyone involved here should try and get as involved as possible...  BUT, in this circumstance, IT IS a really weird thing to come into and that's on us as Veteran "Soldiers" to make this place more welcoming.  (Which I think we're DOING, but certainly wasn't being done at the onset of the tournament)

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Re: Revolution 129 - Feedback
« Reply #21 on: September 12, 2014, 10:34:06 AM »
Which leaves us with the REAL question...

WHATS IN THE SOUP??

Im gonna say gwenyth paltrow's head.

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Re: Revolution 129 - Feedback
« Reply #22 on: September 12, 2014, 10:43:47 AM »
Hey dudes, I didn't mean to make anyone defensive, I simply leave feedback to open up different avenues, ideas, and approaches to things. That's how this game has always worked for me because as writers we typically only see a couple things in front of us, and part of the great thing about writing in a community is now other people can point out potential blind spots or where good can become great.

I never asked people to defend themselves (though, yes I did ask Steve why he decided not to write segments, because I was curious to his thought process) I simply state how I feel about a character or story because to me it does no good to just only write about the things we totally love and ignore the stuff we don't... because most of the time most community writers just take nothing said as that they're doing just fine. And everyone is right now. The roster is doing fine, so at some point you go... well what's the next step, what could be better now. How could this be conveyed in a much more impactful way so readers are pumped.

I liked Revolution 129 bros. Like a lot. Holds up with a lot of great past editions of Revolution and other SHOOT Project shows that have been created over the storied history.

Any further discussion on how I see things regarding the Master of the Mat Tournament itself as a tool for character development while showcasing "competitive" chops, I'll talk about outside of this thread.

Alright Scott. Where's that full show feedback.
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Re: Revolution 129 - Feedback
« Reply #23 on: September 12, 2014, 10:44:40 AM »
FWIW, I wasn't questioning the outcome of any of the matches.  I think everyone would agree the matches played out the way they should have (emphatically saying so in your feedback isn't necessary, though).  I was just there's one story in MotM right now and those two guys are tearing through the tourney and it makes it incredibly interesting that way.  If this were Raw, you'd look at this and say "obviously it's going to be Corazon vs. Ike" but as a fan it's exactly what you'd want to see.

You guys have been very welcoming and I love it here so far.  I just think maybe think about people's situations (and possibly your own) before telling them where they're failing.  When 3M said he wanted a story with someone, I was fighting back the urge to tell him I wanted in because I didn't know when my MotM run would end and my tag team with Zex would start.  So my mindset was just RP for MotM.

I personally come from a history of feds where setting and creativity matters in roleplays as much as story.  In fact, a lot is different here when it comes to how RP's are set up and viewed compared to feds I've been in.  It's a change for me and I'm going to adapt, but give me a second to get my feet (I've been here 3 months, but it's been like 5 shows). 

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Re: Revolution 129 - Feedback
« Reply #24 on: September 12, 2014, 10:46:16 AM »
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I never asked people to defend themselves

And yet Sam, Steve, Matt and I all felt compelled to.  Feel free to comment on how you think people can get better, but when you say someone's roleplays "fell flat" it comes off a little hostile.

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