August 18, 2017, 10:21:53 AM

Author Topic: The Walking Dead (Spoilerz)  (Read 18138 times)

TheLegacy

  • SHOOT Project Soldiers
  • Newbie
  • *
  • Posts: 5050
    • View Profile
    • GuysNation
Re: The Walking Dead (Spoilerz)
« Reply #25 on: November 22, 2011, 12:15:17 PM »
The Walkers Barn thing doesn't bother me too much.

The people wanting Rick & Co to leave their house doesn't bother me much... though the idea of no longer seeing Farm Girl is frustrating. Enjoyed her on CHUCK and I'm glad she's there... so I hope she continues on the journey.

The Fatty Zombie In A Well thing was nasty.

And I wouldn't tell Shane to leave. He might've hobbled Otis, but he's still really valuable.


"Belote is now the new quote champion of the AJAX"
Post Whore Goal:
**Completed Goals**
2,222 before 1/1/2012
2,888 before 2/14/2012
4,500 before 12/25/2012
4554 before 1/1/2013
**New Goals**
4664 before 1/1/2013

X-Calibur

  • X-REGISTERED
  • Newbie
  • *
  • Posts: 1908
    • View Profile
Re: The Walking Dead (Spoilerz)
« Reply #26 on: November 27, 2011, 04:10:30 PM »
Shane is my hero.

And it's about time he nailed the blonde.

xiv

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Posts: 15637
  • B once fired a guy for me.
    • View Profile
Re: The Walking Dead (Spoilerz)
« Reply #27 on: November 27, 2011, 09:07:50 PM »
That was a helluva intense episode.  So damn good. 

xiv

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Posts: 15637
  • B once fired a guy for me.
    • View Profile
Re: The Walking Dead (Spoilerz)
« Reply #28 on: November 27, 2011, 09:12:42 PM »
This season:

Love Carl swearing.

Love Glen's love interest... blanking on her name.

Love the scene in the swamp with Shane/Dale. 

Season 2's 1st Half MVP:  Daryl.  Daryl was super money this first half!  Can't wait for February.

Entragian

  • Project: SCAR
  • Newbie
  • *
  • Posts: 4553
    • View Profile
Re: The Walking Dead (Spoilerz)
« Reply #29 on: November 27, 2011, 09:19:46 PM »
Great episode.

I'm an avid Shane supporter as well.






xiv

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Posts: 15637
  • B once fired a guy for me.
    • View Profile
Re: The Walking Dead (Spoilerz)
« Reply #30 on: November 27, 2011, 09:56:23 PM »
i'm in the minority, here at least, I don't like Shane.  He's a dickbag.  He does have a value, but he is not likable, but he's a fascinating character and totally helps drive the show.

Team Rick 4 Life (He had the stones to step up to Zombie Sophia!)....  or Team Darryl. 

X-Calibur

  • X-REGISTERED
  • Newbie
  • *
  • Posts: 1908
    • View Profile
Re: The Walking Dead (Spoilerz)
« Reply #31 on: November 27, 2011, 10:46:56 PM »
Haha, yeah I don't REALLY like Shane.  He has moments of bad assery that make me smile or say things like he's my hero, but overall he's a huge piece of shit and if I had to choose between Team Rick and Team Shane, I'm Team Rick all the way.  Shane's gradually slipping into madness, it seems, and that is clearly starting to outweigh his usefulness to the group.

Now, if we get a Team Redneck?  Fuck. Darryl is the fucking man. Through and through.

Entragian

  • Project: SCAR
  • Newbie
  • *
  • Posts: 4553
    • View Profile
Re: The Walking Dead (Spoilerz)
« Reply #32 on: November 27, 2011, 11:15:46 PM »
overall he's a huge piece of shit + Shane's gradually slipping into madness

That's exactly why I like him.    :D






Kenji Yamada

  • The Embodiment of SCAR
  • Project: SCAR
  • Newbie
  • *
  • Posts: 1474
    • View Profile
Re: The Walking Dead (Spoilerz)
« Reply #33 on: November 28, 2011, 01:14:00 AM »
overall he's a huge piece of shit + Shane's gradually slipping into madness

That's exactly why I like him.    :D

This.

Team Shane. After popping four rounds into the Walkers chest, "That's enough!" "You're right, that is enough." *headshot*

Shane should be the first inductee into the Project: SCAR celebrity wing.

There is a special providence in the fall of a sparrow. If it be now, 'tis not to come; if it be not to come, it will be now; if it be not now, yet it will comeā€”the readiness is all.

Entragian

  • Project: SCAR
  • Newbie
  • *
  • Posts: 4553
    • View Profile
Re: The Walking Dead (Spoilerz)
« Reply #34 on: November 28, 2011, 11:36:01 AM »
^ Hell yes.






DrezzyF2T

  • SHOOT Project Soldiers
  • Newbie
  • *
  • Posts: 3422
  • Life. Deal. Rock.
    • View Profile
Re: The Walking Dead (Spoilerz)
« Reply #35 on: November 28, 2011, 12:16:00 PM »
Then you realize that you'd ultimately lose support and fail, eh? Rick being the only one to man up and be able to put Sophia down was symbolic of how he's the only one in the group truly fit to be a leader, even if he's not gung ho about killing walkers and takes unnecessary risks at times (which he always puts himself into, so he's the one taking the risk on the front line with the rest of the team).

I'm totally agreeing with Darryl being the MVP thus far. The fact that he offered to kill Andrea, continuously tried to find Sophia for Carol's sake, and even fought his hallucination of his brother makes him the most well-developed character on the show. He knows that staying with the group is his best bet at survival and he's willing to lay his life on the line to help it because he knows, despite what his vision of Merle told him, that they'd be willing to do the same for him (and Rick, T-Dog, and even Glen have proven it).

*"Behind the Scenes" graphic by Sam Valentine
*Corey Lazarus banner by Ben Duke

Entragian

  • Project: SCAR
  • Newbie
  • *
  • Posts: 4553
    • View Profile
Re: The Walking Dead (Spoilerz)
« Reply #36 on: November 28, 2011, 12:34:17 PM »
Then you realize that you'd ultimately lose support and fail, eh?

Frankly I don't think Shane would give a fuck if he loses support. He's adept to the point where the group needs him a hell of a lot more than he needs the group. If not for Shane's drastic approach of exterminating the barn walkers, Rick never would have even gotten a chance to see that Sophia was in there.

He'd still have people out risking their lives in that hopeless search.






DrezzyF2T

  • SHOOT Project Soldiers
  • Newbie
  • *
  • Posts: 3422
  • Life. Deal. Rock.
    • View Profile
Re: The Walking Dead (Spoilerz)
« Reply #37 on: November 28, 2011, 12:45:35 PM »
Shane, however, cannot be trusted. As pointed out, Rick was the one that man'd up and put a round in Sophia's head, ultimately paying for the fact that it 's his fault she was a walker anyway. Shane, nor the rest of the group, had a problem with being the firing squad when it was Hershel's friends and family that were walkers in the barn, but once it was somebody from his own group? He chickened out.

This is why Shane fails: he's got the rage but no true control over it. He's a walking pile of unstable emotions. Rick, for as ineffective as he was during the search for Sophia, knows what needs to be done and does it so that the group stays together.

*"Behind the Scenes" graphic by Sam Valentine
*Corey Lazarus banner by Ben Duke

Entragian

  • Project: SCAR
  • Newbie
  • *
  • Posts: 4553
    • View Profile
Re: The Walking Dead (Spoilerz)
« Reply #38 on: November 28, 2011, 12:56:44 PM »
Shane, however, cannot be trusted. As pointed out, Rick was the one that man'd up and put a round in Sophia's head, ultimately paying for the fact that it 's his fault she was a walker anyway. Shane, nor the rest of the group, had a problem with being the firing squad when it was Hershel's friends and family that were walkers in the barn, but once it was somebody from his own group? He chickened out.

This is why Shane fails: he's got the rage but no true control over it. He's a walking pile of unstable emotions. Rick, for as ineffective as he was during the search for Sophia, knows what needs to be done and does it so that the group stays together.

Rick can never make the hard choices like Shane does. If Rick had went out with Otis, both of them would have been devoured by walkers and as a result, his son would be dead. So yeah, I wholeheartedly disagree that Shane fails. I see Shane adapting to this new dog-eat-dog world, while I see Rick continuing to live in a past that is just as dead as the walkers themselves.







J

  • Supreme Commander
  • The Brass
  • Newbie
  • *****
  • Posts: 10211
    • View Profile
    • http://www.shootproject.com/
Re: The Walking Dead (Spoilerz)
« Reply #39 on: November 28, 2011, 01:04:27 PM »
It's crazy how far the series has deviated from the comics.  In my opinion, at least.

DrezzyF2T

  • SHOOT Project Soldiers
  • Newbie
  • *
  • Posts: 3422
  • Life. Deal. Rock.
    • View Profile
Re: The Walking Dead (Spoilerz)
« Reply #40 on: November 28, 2011, 02:09:20 PM »
Re: Rick vs. Shane
The problem with Shane is that he lets his temper control him. Just as people like that in real life don't fare well under dire circumstances, Shane's ultimately doomed. His decision to kill Otis in order to get the machine back to the farm was a necessary evil, true, but who's to say Rick's ingenuity would've made it so that he would not have survived had he gone? He's already proven that he's more capable than Shane of surviving this world alone by the sheer virtue of having done so, and that he defused a possible war of attrition with a group of gangbangers in Atlanta in order to save Glen (their go-to for risky missions that involve stealth and speed more than anything) speaks wonders about his character.

Re: deviation from the comics
Kirkman's said that he wants the two worlds to be separate entities, so I'm digging it. The big picture is the same and some of the details are identical, but overall? Different takes on the same idea. If it was a by-the-numbers adaptation of the book then Darryl wouldn't exist and this whole season would have sucked if not for Darryl.

*"Behind the Scenes" graphic by Sam Valentine
*Corey Lazarus banner by Ben Duke

Eric Rohkar

  • The Assistant Sheriff of Scottingham
  • SHOOT Project Soldiers
  • Newbie
  • *
  • Posts: 2401
    • View Profile
    • wearefilth.com
Re: The Walking Dead (Spoilerz)
« Reply #41 on: November 28, 2011, 02:15:56 PM »
Of course you don't like 'like' Shane. He's kind of a dick. With that said, he's also a realist, and in a lot of ways, he's not all THAT bad.

Let us examine the 'evils' of Shane for a moment, shall we.

1. He left Rick for dead in a hospital: Okay, yes, this appears bad on the surface. However, let's consider something. You are in a hospital, and all of the sudden, everything goes bat shit crazy. There is some kind of monsterous, semi-human creature running around eating people, and the government has sent soldiers in to murder everyone, including completely human people. Now, you need to get out, but alas, your friend/family member is in a coma. Would any of you have given Rick the same amount of effort that Shane gave him? And is leaving Rick really that crazy? Would two bodies have been better than one?

2. Told Lori Rick was dead: And for all intents and purposes, he was. He was in a COMA, during the ZOMBIE APOCALYPSE! If the afore mentioned zombies had not killed him, it could easily be assumed that the government soldiers with orders to do nothing but kill would have gotten him. Hell, even if he somehow were to survive, he's in a COMA, and now he has no medical care. Instead of risking lives to go check on Rick, or risking lives waiting in hopes that Rick MIGHT wake up, Shane decided to make a completely reasonable and logical assumption that Rick was dead, and that it was best to move on. I don't think he was like "Oh sweet, I can fuck Lori now". I think he was doing what he felt was the best and most right thing in that moment. The fact that Rick did manage to wake up and survive is pure Hollywood. In a realistic situation, there is a 95% chance that guy would be fucked.

3. Shane fucked Lori: I don't think, when Shane left Rick in the hospital, he was thinking "gonna bang this guys wife and raise his child as my own". I think he looked after his best friends wife, which is a pretty honorable thing to do, and in the process, feelings came up. Again, it is reasonable to assume this ladies husband is dead, and in the apocalypse, the traditional courtship process changes radically. Having people who care deeply for you is a great survival trick, and honestly, despite Lori's regrets, having Shane have these really conflicting feelings for her and Carl has saved her ass quite a bit.

4. Beat up Carol's husband: A little excessive, but come on? Is this a bad thing?

5. Leveled his gun on Rick: Okay, this one looks really bad, and it is. It's one of two things that are kinda hard and impossible to justify. That said, I think this was no more than when you hold your hand up like you are going to punch someone and drop it. He did not fire, I don't think if he had been all alone he would have fired, and look at Shane now. Up until recently, he has gone along with what Rick has told him and not leveled up complaint(cept to Lori), as he understands that the group wants to follow Rick. Now, down the line, will we see Shane ready to SHOOT Rick? Maybe, but right now, I think he would ONLY do it if he felt it would save the lives of the people he cares about(Lori, Carl, maybe Andrea). In an apocalyptic situation like this, survivors of all walks of life are gonna realize that the world they knew is gone. With the regular social stigmas and natural social constructs that regulate our behavior gone, EVERYONE is gonna do things they would not have normally done in the real world, and certain behaviors are gonna be enhanced(like actually visualizing firing a gun at your best friend).

6. Tried to rape Lori: K, this is bad. I guess, to play devil's advocate, he was really drunk(on fucking SOCO, gross), and Lori kinda handled this situation very poorly. "Hey, I know I've relied on you and led you on and we've fallen in love, but my husbands back, so fuck you never talk to me again." A little honesty early on would have been a GREAT thing. That said, rape is not justifiable. This was the ONE thing that Shane has done that I feel is truly truly 'bad guy' material. You can't justify this one.

7. Otis: First off, if what happened to Otis wasn't karma just a little bit, I don't understand what karma is. Second, Shane did what Shane thought was right. I don't know you, but I know Carl, and I know I love and care for Carl, and I'm gonna do anything to make sure Carl lives. BAM! Just like any average person would do, Shane is okay with sacrificing those he doesn't know for those he loves. Is that bad guy behavior, or completely normal? Either way, Shane saved Carl's life while Rick and Lori cried.

8. Leaving Sophia: He was just saying what everyone else was thinking. In normal, regulated society, after a kid is missing for more than 48 hours, the search becomes for a body. I loved the Talking Dead poll for the first search episode, how long would you look for a kid that isn't yours? 99.9% of the people who voted said they wouldn't search at all. And still, even with that train of thought, Shane did more searching for Sophia than Carol.

9. Threatening Dale: My least favorite character is Dale. He is so self righteous and preachy, and by god I wish a walker would eat him already. So, after everything Shane has done for the group, and he has done a lot, Dale comes to him and says "why don't you get the fuck out", Shane gets a little pissed. Threatening Dale wasn't necessary, but can you really blame the guy.

10. Walker Barn: Herschel is crazier than Shane. Herschel will risk the lives of his entire family and anyone on his premises to save the 'sick' people, but he is willing to cast out a child who has just been wounded(by his own man no less), a pregnant woman, and a group of survivors who are so desperate for a place to stay and would be a great asset to his farm? The SHOOTing up of the Walker Barn was completely necessary, and I'd go so far to say that it's not unreasonable to use a little force to stay on Herschel's farm. This dude cares more for Walkers, some of which he doesn't even know, over real, living people. Dude needs to have his head bashed in. As for the "Rick was the one who shot Sophia argument", sure, Shane froze for a moment because, honestly, who expected to see Sophia come out of the barn? I sure didn't. So it's reasonable to assume that any of these people would freeze for a moment. Had Rick not acted? Shane would have, or one of them would have before they became just like her. But, hey, if Rick wants to volunteer to SHOOT the little girl, why not let him?

Is Shane a good guy? Oh no, not at all. But I don't think he's gone crazy. He's making moral decisions based on his moral compass that has altered, and has HAD to alter due to the mother fucking apocalypse. If Shane goes pure evil, I'll be a little disappointed, because that's too easy. Shane is not a bad guy. He's just a guy willing to do whatever it takes to keep himself and those he loves alive.

Rick and Shane are BOTH flawed leaders. Shane has lost almost all human empathy, and Rick has too much. They are two extremes. On the one hand, Shane will leave your ass. On the other hand, how many people has Rick endangered, maybe even gotten killed, because he wanted to do the right thing? He was leading a walker on a mother fucking LEASH! That's totally safe. Shane is not likeable, but I think people love to attack him based on a perspective that would not be feasible if we were plunged into Shane's situation.

Eric Rohkar

  • The Assistant Sheriff of Scottingham
  • SHOOT Project Soldiers
  • Newbie
  • *
  • Posts: 2401
    • View Profile
    • wearefilth.com
Re: The Walking Dead (Spoilerz)
« Reply #42 on: November 28, 2011, 02:31:12 PM »
Also, can there be a Team Glenn? Or, if there isn't a Team Glenn, can Glenn be on Team Darryl? Seriously, for a kid who's biggest achievement pre-zombie apocalypse was probably doing the speed run on Portal, this guy has been dynamite.

Also also, does T-Dawgg have a real name, or is he just that black, and I have a follow up, will T-Dawgg ever prove himself useful?

DrezzyF2T

  • SHOOT Project Soldiers
  • Newbie
  • *
  • Posts: 3422
  • Life. Deal. Rock.
    • View Profile
Re: The Walking Dead (Spoilerz)
« Reply #43 on: November 28, 2011, 02:48:16 PM »
I like Shane as a character. I feel like I need to say that. His motivations are clear (points 1 and 2 are entirely justified, which even Rick agreed with, and point 3 was even defendable given that the only other man Lori's probably ever trusted post-apocalypse was Shane) and he derives little pleasure from doing what he honestly does believe to be right. He's a useful person to have on the team.

However, what Jim said at the camp when Shane asked him to stop digging holes, at least the heart of what he said, is true: believing "might makes right" is a fatalist view that dooms those who hold it to eventually succumb to it. Shane may have Andrea and Darryl on his side (to a degree, since Darryl's proven he follows his own orders unless it's absolutely vital that he listens to somebody else), but that leaves Glen, Dale, Carol, Rick, Lori, Carl, T-Dog, and the entirety of Hershel's farm against him (from what it appeared last night, Hershel and Maggie have three others living at the farm with them), making the odds 12 on 3 at its best. It's more like 13 on 2, since Darryl will likely follow the others since he's a survivalist at heart (more people = better chance of survival, even if you're forced to hold back half the time), and Andrea's proven that she can be swayed, so that makes it 14 on 1 with Shane being the odd man out in the end of it all.

Basically? Shane's justified in his actions, even if his actions are horrible. As a character, he's well-developed and invigorating. As a leader, though, he's not good. Rick demonstrating that he's willing to stop moving and search for Sophia lets the rest of the group know that he's willing to do the same for them. Shane wanted to move on. This tells me, if I'm part of the group, that Rick wants to keep us all safe whereas Shane believes I'm disposeable (unless I'm Carl or Lori). Rick is the leader I'd be more willing to run with given that he'd be ready to put his own neck on the line for me.

Hershel's crazy, true, but his kind of crazy is understandable given the reactions of everybody once Sophia shuffled out of the barn as a walker. Everybody in there were either friends or family (the two that he wrangled with his son and Rick, as he said, were friends who lived down the road). Sophia, to anybody but Carol, was just another person in the grand scheme of things, yet, as part of their group, they grew to have affection for her on a base and human level. Rick proved that he can make the tough call by putting her down when Shane, Andrea, T-Dog, Glen, and Darryl were completely dumbfounded (and Carol was a full-on mess with the only thing stopping her from likely allowing Sophia to bite her being Darryl holding her down and consoling her).

Rick > Shane, even if Rick's a pussy. I'll take the emotionally sensitive and somewhat neurotic leader with occasionally misplaced senses of honor and chivalry over the unstable and overtly aggressive second-in-command that chokes up once he faces the horror of having to put down one of his own.

*"Behind the Scenes" graphic by Sam Valentine
*Corey Lazarus banner by Ben Duke

Eric Rohkar

  • The Assistant Sheriff of Scottingham
  • SHOOT Project Soldiers
  • Newbie
  • *
  • Posts: 2401
    • View Profile
    • wearefilth.com
Re: The Walking Dead (Spoilerz)
« Reply #44 on: November 28, 2011, 02:59:11 PM »
Oh, I wasn't making the point that Shane was the best choice for leader. Truth be told, I think they should boot Rick and Shane for Darryl or, dare I say it, Glenn.

I was just justifying Shane's actions to make the point that you can't entirely villify him, and I really really hope that the show doesn't go ahead and just make him another Merle-esque character. I sorta hope we see the good in Shane a little bit more, if only to keep his character fresh and interesting. Because there is good in there, but let's be honest, in a world gone to shit, you go to shit with it or die.

I also think Darryl is more than a survivalist. I mean, he is, but his consoling of Carol(not just when Sophia came out, but in past episodes) and his efforts to find Sophia(more so than anyone else) shows that Darryl, once he is away from Merle, is actually a pretty decent guy.

If Merle comes back, though...

DrezzyF2T

  • SHOOT Project Soldiers
  • Newbie
  • *
  • Posts: 3422
  • Life. Deal. Rock.
    • View Profile
Re: The Walking Dead (Spoilerz)
« Reply #45 on: November 28, 2011, 03:06:05 PM »
If anybody's familiar with the character of the Governor from the comics, there were hints that maybe the show-version of him could be Merle should they have him ever return. Given that the arc with the Governor is probably the most important aspect of the comic since the first book, that'd be awesome if true.

I'd say a good comparison of Rick and Shane would be the main characters from the movie Warrior. They're brothers but have entirely different outlooks on life and reasons for fighting professionally in the tournament, and they eventually have to go at it against each other.

(Sorry, Warrior is still one of the best movies I've ever seen, so I try to pimp it as much as possible.)

*"Behind the Scenes" graphic by Sam Valentine
*Corey Lazarus banner by Ben Duke

X-Calibur

  • X-REGISTERED
  • Newbie
  • *
  • Posts: 1908
    • View Profile
Re: The Walking Dead (Spoilerz)
« Reply #46 on: November 28, 2011, 03:07:17 PM »
Quote
Or, if there isn't a Team Glenn, can Glenn be on Team Darryl? Seriously, for a kid who's biggest achievement pre-zombie apocalypse was probably doing the speed run on Portal, this guy has been dynamite.

God yes.

X-Calibur

  • X-REGISTERED
  • Newbie
  • *
  • Posts: 1908
    • View Profile
Re: The Walking Dead (Spoilerz)
« Reply #47 on: November 28, 2011, 03:15:22 PM »
Also, although I realize this thread says "spoilerz" right in the title, can we at least try and contain the "spoilerz" to the TV show aspect rather than add conjecture about stuff that has happened in the comic books and may or may not happen in the TV show?  I really wish I hadn't known about the Governor/Merle thing, cause in the off chance it DOES happen?  Heh, so much for the surprise factor.

Just saying.

xiv

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Posts: 15637
  • B once fired a guy for me.
    • View Profile
Re: The Walking Dead (Spoilerz)
« Reply #48 on: November 28, 2011, 03:17:07 PM »
Also, can there be a Team Glenn? Or, if there isn't a Team Glenn, can Glenn be on Team Darryl? Seriously, for a kid who's biggest achievement pre-zombie apocalypse was probably doing the speed run on Portal, this guy has been dynamite.

Also also, does T-Dawgg have a real name, or is he just that black, and I have a follow up, will T-Dawgg ever prove himself useful?

hahah yeah poor T-Dawg would be this half's LVP, for sure.  

xiv

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Posts: 15637
  • B once fired a guy for me.
    • View Profile
Re: The Walking Dead (Spoilerz)
« Reply #49 on: November 28, 2011, 03:25:12 PM »
part of what makes the show fascinating is the dichotomy between Shane/Rick.  Like the differences between Jack and Locke in Lost.  Between AL and Bullock in Deadwood.