September 19, 2019, 06:56:07 AM

Author Topic: Socio-political discussion  (Read 3603 times)

CadreCross

  • We all have our Cross to bear ...
  • X-REGISTERED
  • Newbie
  • *
  • Posts: 1053
    • View Profile
Re: Socio-political discussion
« Reply #125 on: June 04, 2012, 05:05:18 PM »
Depends how one defines "effective" amongst a loose coalition of disparate groups with different intentions, as well as hangers-on and people seeking to exploit a popular movement for its own ends.

If you take the aim to be letting the world know that poor people are pissed off at being pissed on by rich people, then yeah, it's been effective. Anything more than that? I dunno.


B: It's possible I have a small man crush on you.  Just wanted to get that out there.
Nicolle: I like you, so I will do things for you.
It's nice to be wanted.

J

  • Supreme Commander
  • The Brass
  • Newbie
  • *****
  • Posts: 10211
    • View Profile
    • http://www.shootproject.com/
Re: Socio-political discussion
« Reply #126 on: June 11, 2012, 10:38:52 PM »
So an acquaintance of mine in Florida had this to say about standardized testing:  

<Conspicuous> god damn this is ridiculous
<Conspicuous> apparently the florida standardized tests changed so much that it giving more kids failing grades
<Conspicuous> hell, kids that can pass an AP test are apparently failing the tests
<Conspicuous> The 2012 scores on the writing test — given to 4th, 8th and 10th graders — plummeted in all districts. Only 27 percent of Florida’s fourth graders were rated proficient, compared with 81 percent the year before. In Seminole, 30 percent were proficient, down from 83 percent.
<@josh> i had a big long discussion about this on one of my forums recently
<@josh> guy from florida talking about how shitty teachers should be fired for stuff like that
<Conspicuous> but this situations is not the teachers fault
<Conspicuous> apparently the writing tests now even measures for factual accuracy in your supporting statements
<Conspicuous> seriously, what does factual accuracy in a writing exam show about the kids ability to write

Eric Rohkar

  • The Assistant Sheriff of Scottingham
  • SHOOT Project Soldiers
  • Newbie
  • *
  • Posts: 2401
    • View Profile
    • wearefilth.com
Re: Socio-political discussion
« Reply #127 on: June 12, 2012, 01:11:23 AM »
I still hold to my statement that shitty teachers should be fired.

I will always hold to that statement.

CadreCross

  • We all have our Cross to bear ...
  • X-REGISTERED
  • Newbie
  • *
  • Posts: 1053
    • View Profile
Re: Socio-political discussion
« Reply #128 on: June 12, 2012, 05:54:20 PM »
Eric: that's one of those wonderful statements like "nobody should ever be raped" - it's true, and it's a wonderful goal, but without a how it's never going to happen.

It all comes back to how to define a good teacher. And like a lot of people have said, there's no easy way to measure that. What's your KPI?

Test scores? Teachers will teach to the test and put that before everything else - it's their job on the line, and so what if your kid never learns to think critically about anything?

Parent/student satisfaction? Some kids hate learning, and some parents will never be happy. Conversely some parents don't give a crap. This'd be a popularity contest where being "nice" would be more important than competence.

Overall test/assessment performance of a teacher over several cohorts seems a little more realistic, but could also be problematic.

I don't disagree that there needs to be a way to find teachers who aren't doing a good job and either get rid of them or train them to do the job better ... but with public schools in the US as under-resourced as they are, I doubt the schools are keeping underperforming teachers on for kicks. They probably need every person they can get. How many teachers could you fire without crippling the system?


B: It's possible I have a small man crush on you.  Just wanted to get that out there.
Nicolle: I like you, so I will do things for you.
It's nice to be wanted.

Eric Rohkar

  • The Assistant Sheriff of Scottingham
  • SHOOT Project Soldiers
  • Newbie
  • *
  • Posts: 2401
    • View Profile
    • wearefilth.com
Re: Socio-political discussion
« Reply #129 on: June 13, 2012, 01:09:06 AM »
I've pretty much given my stance, so this is going to be short, because I really don't feel like repeating myself.

You try to fire a bad teacher, you have to spend lots of money(money that we have pointed out the schools don't have) fighting the Teacher's Union, so it makes more sense just to pass them off to another school in exchange for one of that schools shitty teachers. Hell, I'll go so far as to say several different careers and companies have this problem nowadays. Everyone is so primed to sue for any little thing that companies are afraid to fire shitty employees.

Looking at some points Lee made, it doesn't make sense to me that, in one moment, you can cry "The schools are underfunded" and in the same breath yell out "we should pay the teachers more". If there is no money to build more schools to lower class sizes or provide proper school resources so that the burden is not felt by the teachers and parents, how are you going to fund raises when they are already making 35,000 starting out, with an average salary of 45,000, and then they get things like retirement pensions, healthcare, etc. etc. etc.

As for how to measure how well the teachers are doing, I do think a form of standardized testing is necessary, but I will wholeheartedly admit the system in place is incredibly flawed and inefficient. I'd, personally, like to see something like the French Baccalaureat(http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Baccalaur%C3%A9at) system in place.

DrezzyF2T

  • SHOOT Project Soldiers
  • Newbie
  • *
  • Posts: 3422
  • Life. Deal. Rock.
    • View Profile
Re: Socio-political discussion
« Reply #130 on: June 13, 2012, 07:42:06 AM »
...it's kind of funny that NCLB led to the Florida issue of factual accuracy being measured on critical writing portions of standardized tests given who put NCLB into play.

*"Behind the Scenes" graphic by Sam Valentine
*Corey Lazarus banner by Ben Duke